After reading the book, I wanted pick his brain to find out more about his personal growth and the evolution of the PUA-industry.
He really has a lot to offer for men of all ages. Please enjoy:
You got started in the game back in the days of Mystery Method. How has your game changed since then?
I’ve dropped all opinion openers, false time constraints and the chintzy routines like the cube etc. I don’t know of anyone who’s still doing that old school stuff. That said, I liked a lot of it, it was fun, but you just move on.
I still have favoured routines, but I prefer to think of them as anecdotes – that’s what everyone else calls them. Just witticisms and stories that I’ll repeat, if they’re relevant to the conversation, and have been similarly well received in the past. I don’t just crowbar them in like used to be done, and they’re all drawn from my life. No tales of a bear shit in the woods that someone else found.
I think the biggest change would be “being” rather than “doing” these days. I don’t really think about it, when I’m in set, like “Where am I? Does she like me?” I’m aware of how the woman’s reacting, the dynamic, but I’m not analysing it in terms of what to do next. I will just assume she likes me, and unless she indicates otherwise, escalate accordingly and instinctively.
How old are you now? And are you still gaming actively?
I’m 47 now. I still go out every weekend, and I’m still Gaming. As I said, I’m not running round doing opinion openers anymore, or high-fiving everyone I like the look of, though! And I only go out on a Saturday night, from 11pm on wards, unless I’m somewhere out with my hometown, then I’ll be out earlier and do more nights.
I’ve never been one to put an expiry age on beauty like some writers in the community/manosphere I’ve read. A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman at forty or twenty in my opinion. Granted, women are more likely to be more attractive younger rather than older, but I don’t apply a blanket “any woman under 25 has hit the wall!” rule. I like who I like, on an individual by individual basis, and don’t much care for anyone else’s philosophy in that regard. You’re denying yourself a whole spectrum of experience by adhering to some arbitrary rule, dreamt up more in ego, than reality.
The events of this book took place a few years back. What made you wait to write a book?
When I began writing, the events recalled were initially those that took place from November 2011 to roughly November 2012. However, I had a long layoff from writing, and when I picked it up again, extended the time frame by about another six months in order to incorporate the filming of a Hitman In London in 2013, and running into Mystery on a subsequent trip to London. I thought those two events may be of interest and help add a little more variety to the story, rather than just produce a repetitive narrative of pickup in the same city, week after week.
I’ve read other pickup memoirs and was aware that some can be little more than a compendium of prior Field Reports. I didn’t want to just revisit every single week and FR, and rehash that. It’s not necessary in my opinion, to detail every interaction and night out. I wanted to take the best of it and use it as a vehicle around which I could also explain the philosophy of the seduction community, why I was doing what I was doing, and why I thought the women were acting why they were acting.
Why did you feel the need to write One Saturday Night?
I hadn’t ever read anything in the seduction community that was coming from the aspect of the older, more mature, man in the Game. I knew there were plenty of guys in their 30s, 40s and 50s still going out, because I saw them every week. When you read any PUA forum, you get the impression that it’s a young man’s “game” but that’s not the case out with the internet. On the night circuit there are still plenty of older guys out, standing around still just as clueless and alone. So, my intention was to write something for them, something I’d like to have read when I got into the Game, because when I did there wasn’t anything for me to relate to: some 20yr or 25yr old coach talking about picking up college chicks and sneaking back to their dorm, has no relevance to the 40yr old guy, maybe divorced, hanging out in a cocktail bar. That same guy will still be out for the same reasons as the younger guy, so I wanted to write something that said it’s not over yet, and here’s my tale to back that up.
Also, I was aware that my own tale, while maybe not possessing the “juicier” elements of some memoirs (i.e. toilet bangs – which isn’t my thing) could also maybe be more relatable. In that, here’s a guy going out once a week usually, in a town setting most guys will recognise, in situations and with the sort of women most guys will recognise too. It wasn’t me Gaming day and night all over eastern Europe and/or Asia, telling a tale that you’re excluded from straight away by virtue of the setting and the method. There isn’t that objection of, “Well, the guy’s only scoring chicks half his age because he’s doing fifty daygame sets, and fifty more again at night in the club, and in Estonia/Latvia/Czechoslovakia where everyone knows the women are more friendly..” etc. Most guys don’t live like that, they just want to be assured that the women in their hometown won’t bite their head off, not the ones in Prague or wherever. And I’m saying, “No, they won’t, you’ll be okay.” And not perpetuating this ridiculous vein that runs through the community/manosphere that ALL women in the West are worthless, so don’t even bother trying!
What is your message to older men in the game who thinks it’s too late to start?
If you’re still going out on a weekend, and plan to for the foreseeable future, then start now!
Assuming you’re hanging out in the right sort of venues for your age/look, then you’re seeing women you could be meeting. If you want to meet them, rather than just look at them, then get into the Game.
What is the hardest part about gaming as an older man?
Probably the personal maintenance in terms of gym, exercise, diet and skin care. Stuff you should be doing anyway, but gets harder as you get older.
Other than that, maybe ensuring access to a selection of quality venues that leverage your attributes to the best effect. That’s only ‘hard’ in terms of where you’re physically located. If you’re in a small town, it’s unlikely you’ll have any. If you’re in a city, you’ll have at least one, and the bigger the city, the more venue choices you’ll have.
Do you flash wealth/money or use your career to get laid?
Many of the venues I name aren’t high end establishments, they’re very much high street pubs and clubs, so there’s no real “money” or status Game to be played in these places. Nobody should hide behind that as an excuse not to get involved if they want to.
Regarding wealth/money, the subject is something of a contentious issue in the mansophere when it comes to how it should be applied in Game. My friends – irish and Gabriel – are successful businessmen, so when we go out, we prefer to be comfortable if we can. That means bottle service etc., and the other comforts I speak of in my book. Only though, if we’re visiting venues that offer those services, and only if we feel they offer value for money,
Now, when we were 21yrs old, did we have the option? No, and we didn’t feel deprived for it either. Now we’re older, we do have the option. And it’s okay to use it in my opinion, because while some may have a hard time computing this, we do actually do it primarily for ourselves. Why sit on the hard wooden stool if you can have the comfortable armchair? That’s essentially what it’s about to us, more than “love my VIP table, love me.”
Personally, I’m not going to deny myself of something, because some “guru” half my age who lives out of hostels, has deemed bottle service/VIP as somehow being fool’s Game(!) And harbours this warped notion that it’s either i) girls (unfairly) back flipping onto your dick all night, all for half a glass of overpriced booze or ii) a bunch of idiots getting scammed for drinks all night by women who are more interested in the liquor than them. The truth of bottle service/VIP is it’s neither of those things, or anything in between. Does it (money) help? Yes. In the same way being in shape and well dressed does. But it’s all part of presenting yourself as who you are, and like those things, no one element is going to be the winning piece in and of itself in your Game.
What I said above, about the guy half my age living in a hostel, that’s not meant to be derogatory. I did it myself. When you’re in your 20s etc., there’s not much expectation on you to be anything more than what you are. It’s okay to be broke, because everyone else is too. Being 20yrs old, living off beans and sleeping on a couch in your artist’s garret while you and your band try and make it, is pretty damn cool. Still doing that at 40, not so much. When you get a bit older, the Bohemian thing can lose it’s shine, fading to a muted colour of “loser.” A younger woman can get a dude her own age to “treat” her to a Subway sandwich. If she hooks up with a more mature man, then yes, it’s for the mature man experience that she can’t get from her contemporaries – which is the mature man date i.e. spending a little money. But getting it in perspective, if you’re living comfortably, you’re not doing that solely for ‘her.’ Same with eating out or holidays etc., you’re doing them irrespective. It’s part of you, and she’s joining you in that; in your life. If your life dictates that all she’s going be joining you in is that Subway sandwich, then there’s no shame in that, and nothing commendable in eating at the French restaurant either. It’s just who you are, and where you’re at.
I’m at age where I’ve done both, still do both, but don’t have a chip on my shoulder because I can’t do both. So, I’m not going to pretend I’m someone else of a night out for fear I might have to spring for a drink or a chicken salad in future, or worry that it’s really two flutes of champagne rather than my awesome routine stack that’s responsible for a happy ending to my night.
DHVing with everything else in the armoury is okay and encouraged; travel, physique, knowledge, skull rings and black finger nails! But money…? For some reason that’s something you’re only ever supposed to aspire to, not actually acquire and use.
You’re from Scotland, which is not exactly a Poosy Paradise. Any plans on travelling or living abroad?
Haha, neither Scotland, nor the whole of the UK, is quite as bad you may have been led to believe by some writers in the manosphere! I don’t recognise the London I frequently read of, and the same with Scotland. Are there better countries/places? Of course! But it’s only a crisis if you’ve determined your superior characteristics, which are being willfully ignored by ungrateful (and undeserving) UK women, can only be properly appreciated by eastern European girls. But I’ve often wondered if those “superior characteristics,” which seem to be such a handicap in the UK, aren’t being more overlooked, more than appreciated, in eastern Europe? But then maybe I’m not a sufficiently qualified Alpha to comment 😉
As for travelling abroad, yes indeed, I plan to do that. I would very much like to join my old wing and friend irish out in Singapore/Jakarta, a region he has quite some experience of now having lived there for three years. I have a standing invite, and my plan is take an extended holiday in the region as soon as I can.
Is there a perfect age for gaming, or does age not matter?
I’d certainly have liked to have gotten into it younger, rather than older, but like taking any right action, be that gym, dieting or whatever, the perfect age is always the one you’re at right now.
I certainly think you can be too young or old. A lot of the community advice is geared around nightlife, and if you’re too young you just can’t partake of that. It’s also a different dynamic in school/college, and I don’t think adopting the spam/approach warrior mentality that’s advised to crush Approach Anxiety would go down particularly well in those sort of closed-shop environments.
At the other end of the spectrum, you’re realistically not going to be on the night circuit forever if you take that as the primary arena for Game. You just don’t see 70 and 80yr olds out – or at least I haven’t happened into them! I reckon you can still be at this into your 50s though, and I intend to be. 60s… I don’t know. I like to speak from experience, so ask me then!
How do you deal with dating a younger girl? Not just her attitude, but judgments by society.
Chatting to younger women you can get told you’re too old for her, from her or her friends, but it doesn’t happen any more often than any other flavour of brush-off; it’s just a handy hammer to hit you over the head with if they’re not interested.
Dating or out with a younger woman, I’ve never had Joe Public walk up to me and give me their unsolicited opinion, or noticed any disapproving looks. Occasionally an acquaintances may say something like, “She’s pretty, but she looks awfully young.” That’s about the worst that’s ever been said to my face. Maybe more’s said behind my back, I don’t know.
In terms of younger women themselves, I suggest avoiding mixing friends. She won’t particularly want to partner you to your friend’s second wedding, and you’re unlikely to enjoy the twenty-something birthday party of someone in her group. I find it works best if you don’t do anything to emphasis the age difference.
There’s not really an issue with general conversation as I don’t tend to want to talk politics, religion or history etc., not because I think the girl will be out of her depth, but because I’d rather relax and have fun instead.
When are you going to retire from the Game? Do you ever plan on settling down?
I’m not against settling down, if I meet someone who makes me completely happy, then I wouldn’t pass that up. Complete happiness sounds pretty good and like winning the Game to me.
But failing that, I’ll keep going until age finally defeats me or I stop enjoying it. Whichever comes first.
A big thanks to Vita for that awesome interview. There’s a ton of gold in there, so make sure to read it closely.